Curse

Sir Green Aluminum · Oct 04, 2007, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I as an elementalist did'nt see any good pve skills that were worth taking out for my current skills. Even if I did I would agree that I would'nt grind for them unless they were at least a little overpowered. Even then, I would'nt really need them because I beat the game and am just waiting for Guild Wars 2.

IslandHermet · Oct 04, 2007, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Post of a God hope everyone takes the time to read it.

darkdreamr · Oct 04, 2007, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

And this is GW:EN is so incredibly short. Once you bring one character through, you've brought them all. Nothing will change with others. And to compensate for that, the new and improved pointless grind was added.

Gwen contains content for one single character, and not a tiny bit more. At least in other chapters, going through storyline netted you a whole bunch of skills for you profession, giving at least a tiny bit of motivation. Here, you get those for free in first outpost, then nothing.

Well, really none of the campaigns have replay value for other characters on the same account. If you're new to the game, then yes, it has the advantage of learning different classes' gameplay mechanics, being introduced to some of their skills, etc. But once you've got the hang of things, there really is no point to repeating a campaign unless you want to do it again. Or you want to level a monk for DoA or something.

I agree with the poster above about the original envisionment of GW. I think the plan was for PvE to be somewhat of a tutorial for PvP. Training so that you knew how to play your class. Not something to be done over and over 8 times. Of course that's gonna be boring, like watching the same movie 8 times. I think that's where the PvP-only characters come in. PvP is the ideal endgame because the content (i.e. the metagame) is always changing and player-driven. I guess they never expected you would want to take character after character through pre-searing, buying all the freaking skills again. And if you actually do that, why not do all the title grinding again? Only a few PvE titles are account based. Most are character based. So I don't think you have a basis for a complaint. Even if you do, it's not new to GWEN. The Wisdom title track is character-specific and it even has tangible benefits. You gonna regrind IDing 10,000 gold items on each character?

Like I said before, GWEN is not a huge disappointment, it is more of the same, and it is exactly the more of the same that was *asked for* by hardcore players, both directly and through their actions.

TabascoSauce · Oct 04, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

You sum up the problem perfectly, darkdreamr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkdreamr

it is exactly the more of the same that was *asked for* by hardcore players

So their reward for grind is superpowerful skills? They are the same crowd asking for hard mode, which stumps me.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Theus · Oct 04, 2007, 10:14 PM // 22:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

You sum up the problem perfectly, darkdreamr.

So their reward for grind is superpowerful skills? They are the same crowd asking for hard mode, which stumps me.

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't even need max ranks to make Hard mode easy.

Just use the consumables.Then Simply C-Space to victory.

Loviatar · Oct 04, 2007, 10:19 PM // 22:19

[QUOTE]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

Fast forward to the end of 2005. Everyone and their brother has at least one set of FoW, and ANet begins to realize that PvP is evidently not for everyone. They thus alter development on Factions, delaying it, to incorporate PvP into PvE and by that encourage players to do it by AB.

this has to be a joke as you cant be that uninformed.

Factions was live exactly on time one year after GW without a minute of delay.

Anet stated that each chapter would have one year of development with 2 teams after GW having a 6 month stagger.

since they had one team all working on GW they had to start that schedule on the release of GW.

6 months after one team started FACTIONS (1 year release date target end of April 06 which was on time)

the other team started a one year development of NIGHTFALL end of Oct 05 with a one year development schedule and release of end Oct 06 which was also on time as advertised 6 months after FACTIONS with a year of work on it.

it was not delayed and the content was as advertised and i remember all the questions about forced pvp right here on guru way before release

especially the AB questions

Winterclaw · Oct 04, 2007, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Quote:

In the beginning before Prophecies, the endgame was intended to be PvP where players were supposed to go, thus ANet did not anticipate players spending 4,572 hours with their characters in PvE. The original uber status symbol was FoW armor, and the requirements to farm ectos and such put it into a category that only the most dedicated would actually achieve, presumably.

...

Maybe if ectos dropped more and were cheaper, people wouldn't have to spend a lot of time in PvE and move on to PvP.

BTW FoW is ugly for the most part.

And it was titles that helped push people into PvE grinding as much as anything else.

Mac Sidewinder · Oct 04, 2007, 11:29 PM // 23:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by arcanemacabre

So, what would you consider "critical to the game?" No one is forced to even play the game - the entire game is optional. That point is entirely moot.

There is a line, and it seems that Anet keeps moving and shifting it with each expansion. At one time, the line was drawn at vanity - not functionality. This has changed.

Simple fix? Have all of the PvE skills tied to already existing attributes instead of titles. Allow the achievement of rank 5 reputation with all 4 reps by completion of all primary and secondary quests - either by adding more quests to fill in the gap, or by lessening the rank limits. Those are my suggestions.

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with this one. I don't mind working for the armor but at least allow them to be accessable by playing the storyline then by repeatedly killing random mobs. This would also encourge players to actually play all of the content that was created.

Gattocheese · Oct 04, 2007, 11:48 PM // 23:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mac Sidewinder

I think you hit the nail squarely on the head with this one. I don't mind working for the armor but at least allow them to be accessable by playing the storyline then by repeatedly killing random mobs. This would also encourge players to actually play all of the content that was created.

What you are basically saying is you want it to be just like every other campaign. Work through the game, get far into an outpost where they sell armor and be able to purchase it. Because getting the max titles when you finish the game is the same concept. Not much of a point for those titles then. I think Anet knew that GWEN was extremely short compared to other things they offered in the past and they are trying to appeal to another new player base.

Nemo the Capitalist · Oct 05, 2007, 12:03 AM // 00:03

everyone does not have fow

the poor dont

zamial · Oct 05, 2007, 12:14 AM // 00:14

Well,
I for 1 really like guild wars, It is my favorite game. I like the fact that it evolves or as some would say devolves.

To those that say "booo" to the grind,
Guild wars has always had some form of grind. Remember how long it took you to get to level 20 playing through on a proph only character, getting no runs???
oh, ya I was distracted by doing the story....

Grind has always been apart of the game. Its just now that people are getting there primary characters near done with stories or titles that they realize it. Some people would rather a /win emote added in that gave you max everything.

As for the "community", I am extreamly social with my alliance/guild of about 100 people. Out side of these people I find a completely disgusting enviorment. Computers isolate people and are mostly used by the social outcasts (no offense meant I'm in this group as well). A large majority of the community are people that infuriate me so I do not actively seek interaction with them, especially now that the /report has been implemented I WILL NEVER PUG AGAIN, EVER.

GW1 is approaching the end of the road. Everyones assumptions and expectations were far over what Gw:en delivered. I for 1 think it is second only to proph. I like the fact that it gives me "something to do" for the next year while I wait for gw2. This is the purpose of gw:en.

BTW I am a title RED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GORED ENGINE GO, my KoaBD will be maxed and I for 1 think it is fun to have goals.

w00t! · Oct 05, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by TabascoSauce

(snip)

(snip)(snip)(snip)(snip)

In short, we have moved from "repetitive content rewarding vanity" to "repetitive content rewarding player toon power".

The question being, is that a good thing?

Thanks!
TabascoSauce

Nope.

PvE only skills are probably the worst thing about Nightfall and GW:EN. Seed of Life was possibly the most broken skill ever created, and many of the GW:EN skills are better than similar elites.

That said, none of the PvE skills are NECESSARY for the completion of any portion of GW. They make things easier, but they aren't necessary. So while they are a generally bad idea (in that they are overpowered), they in no way cripple GW, or require grind.

aspectacle · Oct 05, 2007, 01:02 AM // 01:02

A little off-topic from where the thread has headed but anyway....

My love affair with playing Guild Wars ended when all bar one of my PvE characters reached and stopped at the point where you had to reach sunspear somesuch to continue. I know they removed that, but it was at that point the game became all about one uber-character and the others were basically abandoned. The game became too much like work, too frustrating to play many characters as I liked to and wanted to. I felt as a player who liked playing several characters I was being somewhat disadvantaged for wanting to play more than one character especially with titles which conferred benefit to the character which held it.

Everyone uses armour as the "look you've always had to grind" example. But consider that it has always been available if you could get your character to it and you had in your inventory the things you needed to buy it. If I had a new character and I managed to get it to FOW I didn't need then to kill x monsters to buy the armour, I could buy that armour if I had the stuff and if I wanted it. I could do the work - the farming, buying whatever on any other character I wanted and shift it onto the character who would get the armour. The mechanic for armour access has changed. I think it is for the worse.

n3ptun3 · Oct 05, 2007, 01:09 AM // 01:09

nice thread, well worth the time to read the initial post

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nemo the Capitalist

everyone does not have fow

the poor dont

and those who just don't care.. there are better looking armor for some players

Calen The Civl · Oct 05, 2007, 01:24 AM // 01:24

I have been a long time player; after enjoying Eotn by taking my time on it, all I have left is to max out titles on my primary character. I just can't bring myself to play through with the other classes I have. Most just come out of retirement for the festivals.

It is just not fun anymore to max out grinding titles.They are so pointless to me now that I have grind the Lb/ss titles to max and rank 5 on all the reputation titles (except vanguard) on my primary. I think its time for me to quit for a while and move on. Perhaps I will revisit the game after a time. With all the games anymore requiring inordinate amounts of time to play or grind, I think it may be time to find a more productive and less frustrating hobby.

HardWonFame · Oct 05, 2007, 01:31 AM // 01:31

Guild Wars is not meant to be played for thousands of hours, go find a sub-based MMO if you need to get your PvE fix.

And I would rather have a game with a healthy mix of grind/ alternative-to-grind content, then a game of just one or the other.

And again...

Grind is a state of mind, not a game mechanic.

Crom The Pale · Oct 05, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

One of the features I like the best about GW may well be a self defeating gift.

Being able to play multiple profs, having 4+char slots.

When I started I played with 4 chars on a regular basis. As each expantion came out I started new chars until now I've got 9 diff chars all lvl 20.

However Because I split my time over so many chars I has taken me almost 28 months now to bring my main char, the War I started 2nd up to the point where I am really happy with all his armor/weapon/skills/titles.

The game was, at one time, set with a great deal of balance so that more time spent on one char did not have any noticable effect vs playing 4+ chars. Now that has changed to a massive degree.

While on the one hand I am happy to play just one char and build up titles, I do miss the fun of playing the other classes.

SotiCoto · Oct 05, 2007, 08:34 AM // 08:34

There are enough things to do in Guild Wars.... and enough freedom to be creative in finding more. Social environments like that always have the capacity for greater entertainment through innovative interaction.

But then most people have all the creativity of a limestone brick.

Ferret · Oct 05, 2007, 09:26 AM // 09:26

Wow, so much to read...in fact too many replies to read them all.

I have to say i think the OP starter is extremely well thought out and well written. I agree with many elements, if not all (as i actually love heroes and always missed that RPG element before their intro).

As a great example of grind, i offer the Rainbow Pheonix. I mean, 10 maxed titles to get it...oh boy.

For my experience of GW:EN, i got to rank 5 in all but Vanguard by the time i got to the end, but ONLY because i did go out of my way to clear a few rep farming areas to get the armors. Without it, i'd have probably been rank 4 in all but Vanguard which is still only rank 3.

One thing i have noticed is that Gaile seems highly absent on these forums of late...does she not like Guru anymore?

Theus · Oct 05, 2007, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Guru questions the greatness that is GuildWars.

It certianly doesn't deserve to be blessed by Gailes presense.

....

srsly